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Post by HalcyonDaze on Mar 31, 2024 5:34:36 GMT -5
I wonder why the ship was not under the control of powerful tugboats in such a critical situation. The harbour ppl would have been aware of the risks surely. groo - you'd remember better than me - but I seem to recall there being lots of tugboats on Sydney Harbour, and I thought they guided ships in and out of the harbour? I was reading that the tug boats don't go as far as the bridge in Baltimore. Which did seem strange to me. different situation in Sydney harbour, I love watching the tug boats guide the container and cruise ships into/out of the berths. Getting the rivercat into the city means I can often get a close up view.
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Post by Liiisa on Mar 31, 2024 6:22:21 GMT -5
That's a good point, jimm.
But I think it all happened so fast that the tugboats wouldn't have been able to help?
I don't hang around Baltimore harbor enough to know if there are tugboats or not. ETA that Hal did the research - interesting.
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Post by groo on Mar 31, 2024 6:28:59 GMT -5
More guided them in and out of their berths, Jim, though large cruise liners are usually accompanied down to around Middle Head.
Apparently they were accompanied by one tug, but this all happened very quickly.
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Post by Queen on Mar 31, 2024 6:42:43 GMT -5
The tug had already left the ship as it was in the shipping lane and should have been a straight line under the bridge and out to sea. The job of the tug is the help the ship in harbours where they couldn't maneuver easily due to their size, and get them into the shipping lane
Apparently they called the tug back but I don't think it could reach them in time and kinda doubt it could really have prevented this. Tugs are powerful, but they rely on nudging a ship already moving at low speed, to make this ship change course at the speed it was going... I haven't done the maths, but I'd have doubts.
I've seen some analyses that actually give a reasonable explanation, this video was helpful to see, it's video synched with a chart of the harbour
And there's a comment under it (stuartmclatchie62) that give a possible scenario of the ship's mechanics rather well.
I predict that there will be changes to the protocol for getting ships in and out of the harbour (speed below 5 knots until past the bridge), changes to bridge construction (protective pylons in front of structural pylons) and a hard look at the ships maintenance depending on what the actual cause was.
There might also be a review of the set up in other harbours...
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Post by vinnyd on Mar 31, 2024 15:25:13 GMT -5
Apparently the tugs leave the ship to use its own power prior to the bridge.
Or they did until now.
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Post by sprite on Mar 31, 2024 15:42:29 GMT -5
I think tugs and pilots tend to be used when there are navigation hazards, like shallows?
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Post by vinnyd on Apr 1, 2024 5:38:05 GMT -5
Pilots are pretty much universal, I think. It was a local pilot directing MV Dali, and notifying the port when she lost power, in time to keep traffic off the bridge.
The channel under the bridge is 50 feet deep, but that is just barely enough for a fully loaded container ship. MV Dali is resting on the bottom now, not in the channel, and apparently when they start lightening the load to get her moving again, they have to work out which containers to remove so that she stays balanced and doesn't tilt over. Kind of like playing Jenga.
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Post by sprite on Apr 1, 2024 11:47:44 GMT -5
And... today I've heard that this was a false flag. FFS. False Flag for what, exactly? Big Bridge?
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Post by Queen on Apr 1, 2024 12:04:47 GMT -5
I think tugs and pilots tend to be used when there are navigation hazards, like shallows? Not navigation hazards - ports. Most sea ports require a pilot for large ships, although captains can be certified for specific ports and then would not need a pilot from the port authority. (Father was certified for the Port of Melbourne) Big ships don't move easily, parking them is almost impossible without a tug... tugs let ships do three point turns in narrow ports.
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Post by Queen on Apr 1, 2024 12:11:39 GMT -5
Apparently the tugs leave the ship to use its own power prior to the bridge. Or they did until now. They left the ship once it was in the shipping lane... I understand that's normal in international ports, it would be an expensive change to require tugs to take ships right out under the bridge. But I guess it will be under consideration. Still haven't seen any official analysis of what when wrong ON the ship.
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Post by sprite on Apr 1, 2024 12:28:18 GMT -5
Sigh. Did you not read my illuminating post, Q? sHeEsH.
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Post by tzarine on Apr 1, 2024 12:34:17 GMT -5
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Post by Queen on Apr 1, 2024 13:03:26 GMT -5
Sigh. Did you not read my illuminating post, Q? sHeEsH. The false flag one? I have thoughts...
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Post by groo on Apr 5, 2024 23:15:51 GMT -5
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Post by Liiisa on Apr 11, 2024 13:29:51 GMT -5
Look at Google Maps — there’s a big hole where the bridge used to be (I’ll delete this attachment later):
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Post by sprite on Apr 11, 2024 13:33:10 GMT -5
Oh that is sad.
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Post by tzarine on Apr 11, 2024 13:45:41 GMT -5
liisa thats terrible poor baltimore, so many problems
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Post by Queen on Apr 11, 2024 15:08:44 GMT -5
there's a guy on fb posting some amazing images of the bridge clearing operation
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