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Post by groo on Mar 7, 2024 5:09:32 GMT -5
Were the Captain of the Matildas (Australia's womens football team) and a striker for England's Chelsea team to call you a "stupid white bastard" would you be "alarmed and distressed", pissed off, bemused, or enlightened?
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Post by HalcyonDaze on Mar 7, 2024 5:53:17 GMT -5
What she did was stupid, but not criminal
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Post by jimm on Mar 7, 2024 6:11:41 GMT -5
If it was said to me I'd probably agree.
But what Hal said.
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Post by Queen on Mar 7, 2024 6:48:25 GMT -5
Appreciate the "enlightened" option but I'd probably be mildly offended.
No clue of context for the question and I'm not googling in my lunch break.
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Post by sophie on Mar 7, 2024 9:47:59 GMT -5
Sounds like whatever happened will cause national attention!
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Post by lisamnz on Mar 7, 2024 15:49:48 GMT -5
somewhere between pissed off and bemused.
Unlike Q, am not on my lunchbreak so will google.
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Post by lisamnz on Mar 7, 2024 15:50:49 GMT -5
Ok, calling someone a 'white bastard' is not racist. It's rude, but not racist.
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Post by lisamnz on Mar 7, 2024 15:52:11 GMT -5
I completely agree with this comment: "Victoria University professor Mario Peucker, an expert in multiculturalism and far-right extremism, said that while there was no doubt that Kerr’s alleged remark contained a racial element, it could not be classified as racist.
“Racism, in its briefest form, is prejudice plus institutional power,” Peucker said."
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Post by Liiisa on Mar 7, 2024 17:19:21 GMT -5
Oh that's good. Yeah, punching up doesn't count.
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Post by Webs on Mar 7, 2024 19:38:09 GMT -5
Given the context, getting beligerant with a police officer because you don't want to pay a taxi fare, it's sounds more like someone is trying to make the officer to blame instead of owning their own bullshit.
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Post by ozziegiraffe on Mar 8, 2024 6:10:23 GMT -5
I referred to old white men on a community Facebook page the other night, in the context of them being rude to a young Aboriginal mum. I haven’t been put in Facebook jail.
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Post by vinnyd on Mar 8, 2024 7:55:45 GMT -5
It is never a good idea to insult a cop, or to get so drunk that you forget that it is never a good idea to insult a cop.
My bet is that English law does not distinguish between punching up and punching down when it comes to racist speech, i.e. between "black bastard" and "white bastard". I would also bet that it doesn't depend on whether the cop was in fact alarmed and distressed but on whether the language (whether "black bastard" or "white bastard" if my first bet is on the money) is likely to give rise to alarm and distress to a reasonable person.
But I haven't done any research; this is all guesswork.
I generally don't like laws that punish speech based on content, including racist speech, unless it gets to the point of inciting a riot or something along those lines.
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Post by sprite on Mar 8, 2024 17:59:47 GMT -5
I see what you mean, Vinny, but there's also death by 1000 cuts. People who use racist speech are often trying to exert soft power, so not inciting violence, but basically threatening it implicitly. "I can say these awful things because you're afraid to call me out."
on the original comment, racist but not racism, as per LisaMNZ's comment. I find it rude by not necessarily threatening.
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Post by sprite on Mar 8, 2024 18:01:46 GMT -5
And given the current absolutely misogynistic, violent attitude of british policing in general to women, that PC should be a little alarmed by strong women not playing victim. (I'm not saying they were right. just that maybe it's good for male police officers to have that experience once in a while.)
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Post by Phar Lap on Mar 8, 2024 22:26:30 GMT -5
After reading about Sam Kerr’s outburst, my opinion is calling someone a stupid bastard is not racist, adding the word white into it takes it to a different level. Ergo calling someone a stupid white bastard can be seen as racist. Substitute the word black for white - “you stupid black bastard” would clearly be seen as a ‘racist’ remark. Why should the word ‘white’ be any different?
ETA: Someone is making a mountain out of a molehill. The phrase how’d you like to feel the rough end of a pineapple? keeps playing around in my head!
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Post by sprite on Mar 9, 2024 7:58:53 GMT -5
Because in Britain, "white" people are almost never at risk of racially-motivated violence. The exception would be members of the Traveller's community.
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Post by Liiisa on Mar 9, 2024 8:03:59 GMT -5
Right. Substitute "socially powerful" for "white" in that phrase and see how it feels different.
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Post by Webs on Mar 9, 2024 13:20:00 GMT -5
Am I the only one seeing her being retalitory for her bad behavior?
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Post by Queen on Mar 9, 2024 13:38:38 GMT -5
Because in Britain, "white" people are almost never at risk of racially-motivated violence. The exception would be members of the Traveller's community. Oh, that feels a stretch. Historically Irish have been, and on occasion Poles have got the short end of whatever racist stick was being used at the time. Pretty sure there's been some nasty stuff towards Ukrainians and/or Russians. I've even copped abuse for being Australian. I was deeply offended. White British aren't at risk, sure.
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Post by sprite on Mar 9, 2024 16:15:16 GMT -5
Yes, but historically, the Irish and Polish weren't seen as properly white. It's a bit of a moving target, 'whiteness.'
Webs, I don't know the whole story. My gut is to think either, they've got that footballer/soccer player illness where bad behaviour is excused because of immense talent (eyeroll), or the officer was genuinely being a bit of a prick. I know there are days when I see a man behaving badly and just want to say, "ffs, stop it with the white male privilege crap!"
(I did see someone in an interaction with a customer service rep where I swear, her face just said, "I'm middle class and pretty, how dare you tell me I'm wrong, you oik!" Wished I'd had a fish to slap her with.)
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Post by Liiisa on Mar 9, 2024 16:22:01 GMT -5
I haven't looked at the original story (and have to admit that I don't care enough about Australian soccer to bother); my comments are purely on the language itself.
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Post by vinnyd on Mar 9, 2024 16:42:03 GMT -5
I don't think we know the whole story; at any rate I don't know as much as I would like to know. She was drunk and threw up in the cab. She got into enough of an argument with the driver (my guess is that he wanted to charge her for cleaning) that it drew the attention of the policeman, whom (I imagine after some other words were exchanged) she called a stupid white bastard.
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Post by ozziegiraffe on Mar 9, 2024 21:13:39 GMT -5
I want to know why it’s taken so long.
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Post by groo on Mar 9, 2024 21:20:12 GMT -5
... and 4 days have been allocated for a criminal trial in another 12 months time.
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Post by HalcyonDaze on Mar 10, 2024 2:51:49 GMT -5
Can I just say I am really impressed with Craig Foster (again/still). He originally came out slamming Sam for her racist remark, and said she should be stripped of the role of captain. He's since done some reading on racism and power structures and has posted a really well thought out apology. An actual apology, and not one of those 'I'm sorry if I offended you'.
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Post by lisamnz on Mar 10, 2024 17:44:37 GMT -5
Can I just say I am really impressed with Craig Foster (again/still). He originally came out slamming Sam for her racist remark, and said she should be stripped of the role of captain. He's since done some reading on racism and power structures and has posted a really well thought out apology. An actual apology, and not one of those 'I'm sorry if I offended you'. I can't find it Hal, could you share?
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Post by groo on Mar 10, 2024 18:22:10 GMT -5
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Post by romily on Mar 11, 2024 4:49:16 GMT -5
Oh, as a white German living in the UK I had to deal with remarks in the past - mainly about the holocaust and similar stuff, so not sure if you can classify this as racist as it's not to do with my skin colour but ethnicity? One comment in a previous job, where I got the manager involved who did nothing as it was "just a joke" - the english excuse for everything - was along the lines of "You better shut up you gassed millions of jews".
But agree with sprite that white doesn't equal white in UK culture. The class system is still in full blow.
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Post by Liiisa on Mar 11, 2024 5:57:11 GMT -5
Yikes rom, what a horrible person.
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Post by romily on Mar 11, 2024 6:54:15 GMT -5
It was 18 years ago - haven't had any comments for ages, and in my company it would not be tolerated.
but it does remind me of the few days after the Brexit vote came through, and lots of nasty encounters some by me, some by other Europeans, being told to go home - I was in a coffee place in town with a french friend, we spoke English, and this crazy lady shouted at us "didn't you hear the vote, you have to bloody go home". She quickly got kicked out by staff, but I heard similar stories from other Europeans.
And now they are struggling with getting qualified workforce - what a surprise!
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