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Post by romily on Feb 6, 2024 8:58:52 GMT -5
This is one thing tat often really irritates me in different situations.
yes, I have a good job, but I also very thrifty with my money - which is the reason I managed to pay off my mortgage early, can afford a personal trainer and can travel. But I live very cheaply at home - look for offers in supermarkets, don't eat out much, don't spend a lot of money on non essentials, don't buy much clothing, shoes, make up etc - I would if it would give me joy but it doesn't. But I also always check for cheaper quotes when it comes to car insurance, broadband, gas / electricity and so on. For example my gym offers two months free when you pay in advance instead of monthly - so I put money aside every month, and that way save abut £130 a year.
I was severely broke twice in my life (after I moved to the UK and after my ex dumped me) and that had an impact I guess, but I actually get a bigger kick out of saving money than spending it for everyday stuff.
I personally would never comment on how other people spend their money.
But I do get comments when I mention an upcoming holiday or my personal trainer for example along the lines of "Wow, you must be well off / paid a lot / be loaded". And it really annoys me as I never know what to reply, it's not a sif I have to justify myself?
And then there is my sister who has a total different approach to money than me - I'm more like my Mum used to be. e had this discussion again this weekend - I wanted to invite my nephew over again this year - and somehow my sister decided it needs to be a week otherwise it's too much hassle - and supposedly I agreed? As much as I will enjoy having him here I thought they would chip in a bit at least with flight costs but she nearly lost it, listing how much she spends on her kids - well, she earns 4 x what I do and decided to have kids, but whatever, I pay for it all... But I made it very clear that that means my niece can't come over as well, due to limited holiday entitlements.
And then she started off again on my weird relationship with money (it's one of the things she brings up again and again) - why I worry about it, I have a good job, and supposedly I have a pathological fear of poverty that I should really address". And the fact that I have a spreadsheet with incoming and outgoing costs is sensible to me but crazy to her. Like WTF?
So two questions:
How are you with money - do you budget? Do you have a good idea how much you have coming in / have going out? Do you like to save / get a bargain or do you not really care? And would you ever comment on somebody else's spending habits?
And how do I, in a very friendly but also firm way, stop my sister once and for all to comment about my relationship with money as I don't feel it's any of her business. Yes, I might sometimes say I can't afford something, but I want her to just accept it. Without it being a big deal.
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Post by sophie on Feb 6, 2024 10:03:16 GMT -5
Last question first: unless you want to be seen as a bottomless money pit, I believe you need your set boundaries how you spend money on family. To me, it was interesting how, years ago, we turned down a request from a niece to help her (co sign for a mortgage), she stopped most communication with us.. it felt like we were being used. There was a perception we were ‘rich’ because we spend money differently than many others… much like you actually. Paying off the mortgage was more important than eating out for example. Is maintaining a relationship with family dependent on you paying for all costs? And in retrospect, we probably would have ended losing money after she got involved with a man who cleaned her out.
And the other question.. set boundaries politely but firmly.. and a polite way of doing it would be saying that since you are single, no one will take care of you in your old age, and you need to start planning your retirement and money management will be focused on that.
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Post by sophie on Feb 6, 2024 10:16:05 GMT -5
And to add to my answer.. I don’t really budget but have a rough idea of what is going on and out.. and I get very antsy if the bank balance is below a certain level. I like to have at least 6 months worth of expenditures covered. It’s an old habit from when we bought our first place and had to watch every penny. That habit has allowed us to spend on travel or other nice things which I guess made some people think we were rich.
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Post by romily on Feb 6, 2024 10:39:18 GMT -5
I am a bit anal with my budget spreadsheet and record everything - but it gives me a very good view on where my money is going and where I can make savings should I need to.
The thing with my sister - it's I think all based on a) me living abroad and b) the perception that it is cheaper if I visit them (1 flight) vs them visiting me. Which is fine by me, but I went over too often last year and will cut back on that, that isn't a problem.
The fact that I invited my nephew was my doing - it's his combined birthday / confirmation present - I just don't recall saying a whole week (last time he was here for 4 days).
I jsy want her to stop making snarky comments whenever it comes to anything money related, like me saving money by paying for the gym membership in advance immediately brought up a comment of how I need to stop worrying about being so poor. this isn't about being poor but common sense IMO.
Plus, yes, I need to find a way to fund my retirement which scares the crap out of me. I just want her to mind her own business on how I spend my money. It's the same with food - I still get the snarky comments about how difficult it is to feed me, even though I am much less a picky eater than I used to. It just annoys me, and always makes me feel I need to justify myself, and I don't think I should. So a polite way of saying - back off, mind your own business without sounding defensive - it's tricky. If I would criticize any of her decisions in a similar way WW3 would have already broken out.
But yes, the relationship with her and her kids means the world to me, and generally we get on very well. But it is more important to me as she is my only family left, whereas she has her own family and I am on the outskirts if that makes sense.
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Post by tinaja on Feb 6, 2024 10:47:31 GMT -5
I used to keep a spreadsheet to know what my living expenses were. But the money beyond I really didn't track. I need to do some work on this because I am going to hit the pension and social security in April. My spending habits have changed so much since I stopped working. I really don't want to spend my time chasing grocery deals. I made some cash yesterday with a sewing lesson. That feels more precious than any income.
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Post by sprite on Feb 6, 2024 10:56:02 GMT -5
"Holiday in Barbados? Wow, you must be loaded!" "Oh, I live like a monk the rest of the year, haha."
"Man, you are always trying to save money!" "Yes, well, I've seen some nice cardboard boxes, but none that I want to live in for my retirement."
I think those of us who have experienced poverty (or near poverty) do change our relationship to money, and we change our perspective on it. I went through it, and the result was that I'm now often a bit anxious about buying anything--I really have to have a good reason. Even to buy a coffee, I have to justify why I'm not waiting until I'm home to get one. I often look at a thing I want and try to work out how many hours I have to work to pay for it. If I have a nice thing in my house, I don't want to use it, unless it's for something special. Which is fine when the thing is a sweater, but not great when it's cheese!
If your sister hasn't gone through that, she won't have that gut-level understanding. She'll assume that there will always be money somewhere. I think your approach is sensible, but maybe she has seen you be anxious, and worries that you worry TOO much about money? That can happen too--but in my opinion, if you're going on holiday, you have a healthy relationship with money.
Martin Lewis describes a lot of his money-saving tips as us asking ourselves how much our time is worth. Yes, sitting on the phone for 30 minutes with the insurance company, to save £150 over the year on insurance payments, is a pain. But if you told someone you'd pay them £ 150 just to sit next to their phone and talk to a couple of people for 30 minutes, most people would call that hiliariously easy money.
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Post by sprite on Feb 6, 2024 11:04:18 GMT -5
Also, I am very bad at budgeting. My approach is just to never buy anything, and hope that I'm earning enough. The last time I had to pay rent, I would spend every actual penny I earned, either on bills, food, or paying down some very high interest, school-related debt. I currently pay %50 of the household expenses (0% mortgage/maintenance, and 40/60 on hols), which is rationally a terrible deal. Partner earns a shit-ton more than me, so every month he banks a little more, while I bank a little less. If we split, I'll be in a bad way.
But I can't bring myself to re-negotiate this, because I insist on believing that any day now I'll start earning more money. He has frequently told me he's happy to re-work how costs are shared. Bah. I need to get over myself.
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Post by romily on Feb 6, 2024 11:06:13 GMT -5
Hit the nail on the head sprite - I had times where I literally was iving of rice with spices until payday. And could not sleep because of money worries. Twice in my live (coming to the UK with no savings and a crappy job to start with and crazy living costs was the one time, and then being kicked out by my ex with n support was the second time).
But really, it's just about 7 years I feel comfortable with my financial situation. And I don't mind spending money on thing I love - like traveling, or y personal trainer - but other stuff? I make my own lunch and bring it to work (partly because I don't like what the food vans sell), and things that don't matter to me a lot I look for bargains. I have all the time in the world, so that doesn't matter.
Typical conversation with my trainer today in the gym - we both had new metal water bottles - he is like me, we compared the bottles and decided they are equal quality, then asked how much did you pay - he paid £12.99, I paid £11.49. he was just "Damn it, you win!" and we both had a good laugh!
My sister would have not spend 20 minutes browsing amazon but bought one for probably €50.
That's the difference.
Funnily enough my nephew is like me - he didn't buy bubble tea in London as "it's €1.28 cheaper in Frankfurt". After doing online conversions. LOL!
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Post by romily on Feb 6, 2024 11:12:23 GMT -5
And I only really worry about money anymore when I think about retirement. Then I feel sick, so I try not to think about it.
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Post by Liiisa on Feb 6, 2024 11:49:29 GMT -5
I keep an expense spreadsheet too! I am kind of a spreadsheet nerd.
I am not naturally budget minded (at all); I only started not being perpetually broke when my salary raised above my desired lifestyle and I moved in with a much more frugal person (pero). He’s not into super fancy restaurants and splurgey vacations and such — so that’s affected me too, and my expenses went down because of being influenced by the way he does things.
I think Sophie’s idea of saying “I’m single and so have to plan more carefully for the future” is a good take. Plus everyone is anxious about different things— “I accept you the way you are, so you should please accept me the way I am” is a great way to approach relationship differences.
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Post by sprite on Feb 6, 2024 12:06:20 GMT -5
Romily, your nephew cracks me up!
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Post by crazycat on Feb 6, 2024 16:32:12 GMT -5
I am probably the total opposite of Rom. I don't budget and it drives MrCat crazy!
We have always kept separate bank accounts and transfer the same amount into a joint account for the mortgage, bills, etc. What we do with the rest of our money is up to us. I spend more money than I need to due to convenience - if something will save me time (which there is never enough of), I would rather pay a bit more. The downside of working full time, having two kids and no extended family support here.
We are lucky that we are comfortable with our salaries. We don't take super expensive trips but we did invest in our caravan which we use a lot.
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Post by tinaja on Feb 6, 2024 17:42:42 GMT -5
This reminds me of college days when I would bicycle to the grocery store for a can of tuna and a bun. I probably had pickles and mayo at home. I don't think I worried much about the situation. That's the poorest I have been. I was living alone. It was so much better than having roommates.
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Post by Liiisa on Feb 6, 2024 17:58:48 GMT -5
I am probably the total opposite of Rom. I don't budget and it drives MrCat crazy! We have always kept separate bank accounts and transfer the same amount into a joint account for the mortgage, bills, etc. What we do with the rest of our money is up to us. That's how we do it too. Much better peace of mind than having everything come out of a joint account/joint credit cards, which invites micromanagement. (Which I could live with for about 3 days and then would be out of there.)
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Post by lisamnz on Feb 6, 2024 18:15:52 GMT -5
[Much better peace of mind than having everything come out of a joint account/joint credit cards, which invites micromanagement I've always been super intrigued at this practice (which is very common amongst both american couples and british couples) of not just chucking it all in together once you're in a committed long term relationship (e.g married) - which is how it works in NZ, Australia, I don't really know where else actually. How can you be in a long term relationship with someone when you disagree over fundamental things like how much money should be spent on general life stuff? Micromanagement isn't necessary when you agree on roughly how much to spend on things. Large purchases of course get discussed & agreed jointly. Do you have less arguments about money as a result? (not sure how you would answer that question!) How do you agree how much each of you pay for ongoing daily stuff, like grocery shopping? If one of you likes to drink wine (more spendy) and the other beer (less spendy), do you individually buy and stash your own alcoholic drinks? So many questions. Yet another one of those things that you just get used to from your own culture/society.
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Post by lisamnz on Feb 6, 2024 18:25:30 GMT -5
Rom, I think there are two separate issues here. One is your sister expecting to pay all costs for your kids when they visit you. Weird. I'd never expect that. The other is your sister and you having different styles when it comes to money. The second may have an influence over the first, but only the first actually has any direct impact on you and your life, so make sure you get any agreements on costs re. kid visits clear if nothing else.
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Post by Liiisa on Feb 6, 2024 18:55:43 GMT -5
lisa I don't think it's an American thing, there are plenty of Americans who have nothing but joint accounts (and joint email accounts! yiiiikes!)
Maybe it's different from your expectations because we got together in our 30s, already had our own accounts; when one partner (me) had already broken up with one erstwhile long-term partner with all the bureaucratic annoyance associated with that, had a kid in college, and had some debt I was paying off that no new partner should have to be liable for, etc. We weren't even going to bother to get married until the Menace became president and threatened the social safety net.
Plus both of us are very stubbornly independent and resistant to other people telling us what to do. Of course if he needed help with something I would pay for it, and vice versa, and when it comes to being very old, we'll pool everything in order to pay for care. But it might make me a bad partner but no, I am not about to have a discussion about whether I'm going to buy a new backpack or get a cappuccino or go on a Magical Train Adventure. I have the money, I'm doing it.
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Post by lisamnz on Feb 6, 2024 19:26:54 GMT -5
lisa I don't think it's an American thing, there are plenty of Americans who have nothing but joint accounts (and joint email accounts! yiiiikes!) Maybe it's different from your expectations because we got together in our 30s, already had our own accounts; when one partner (me) had already broken up with one erstwhile long-term partner with all the bureaucratic annoyance associated with that, had a kid in college, and had some debt I was paying off that no new partner should have to be liable for, etc. We weren't even going to bother to get married until the Menace became president and threatened the social safety net. Plus both of us are very stubbornly independent and resistant to other people telling us what to do. Of course if he needed help with something I would pay for it, and vice versa, and when it comes to being very old, we'll pool everything in order to pay for care. But it might make me a bad partner but no, I am not about to have a discussion about whether I'm going to buy a new backpack or get a cappuccino or go on a Magical Train Adventure. I have the money, I'm doing it. OH interesting, I thought it was just as pervasive in the US as it is in the UK. Yes good point on the time/stage of life thing.
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Post by wombatrois on Feb 6, 2024 19:35:52 GMT -5
Don't budget, but probably should. Shared bank account (got together in our 30s but possibly no big leftover complications).
I like Sprite's answers to your sister.
I have a vague idea what comes in / goes out and stop spending when my cc gets too high. Probably totally inadequate way of living.
The mortgage is very close to being paid off and I did make a concerted effort to pay as much as possible - the last sector I worked in had a very generous salary packaging benefit where you could pay an additional amount to your mortgage before tax, thereby reducing your taxable income. So I took advantage of that.
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Post by tzarine on Feb 6, 2024 19:55:42 GMT -5
rom i love your nephew's comment bout the tea!
my fam is "you rent?" "you waste money travelling" i dont see them often
i have funny relationship w money i budget & will save for travel i also spend money on clothes & shoes that last - not "season" driven i dont own any real jewelry. i had a stereo system i held onto for a long long time
i was in college w lots of disposal income bc of cali's really generous grant system & i worked all summers i actually had to return academic awards so i could travel
we also won a lawsuit against our landlord & that gave us extra
tzar is waiting to take out social security
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Post by whothingie on Feb 6, 2024 23:02:22 GMT -5
I get tired of comments about how lucky I am that I travel. My reply is I'm lucky I like hardwork and long hours. My lifestyle is very simple and I follow Sophie's example of emergency money stashed. When the proverbial hit the fan and I went solo my first priority was a house, and luckily I missed the inflation bubble here. That gave me peace of mind and security and that's important to me. No posh technology, a simple car, allowed me to pay off the mortgage and still travel, again economically.
Sophie's comment, about being solely responsible for your future. Agree.
Back to Lisa's comment on joint everything, that's how it was done when I married, and I let my guard down after 29 years and didn't check balances as I was more concerned with his mental health. That cost me more than just a divorce as it was not recoverable. A mistake I wouldn't want anyone else to suffer from.
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Post by romily on Feb 7, 2024 3:44:33 GMT -5
Yes, it came up in a discussion I had last night – she seems to be incapable of putting herself into my shoes. If I would get ill and not be able to work anymore I would be totally screwed – I have nobody to support me. They (her and her partner) have each other, which is a totally different ballgame. No matter if you have joint accounts or not, you have somebody who has your back – I saw a documentary yesterday with a woman who had a brain injury that left her disabled – my life would pretty much over without family being there to help and support me, and with the non existent social net in the UK. I am totally alone in being responsible for my financial security and my life, and that in itself IMO creates a different outlook on finances.
If I ever would be in a relationship again and live with somebody (highly unlikely!) I would never merge my finances at this point in time – yes, joint account for joint expenses like groceries and fixed bills, percentage wise based on income (my ex screwed me over big time with insisting we split everything 50/50 when I moved in even though he earned about 5 times what I did and had all these costs to cover alone before I moved in) , but otherwise each to their own when it comes to money.
I need to find a way to set clear boundaries in a friendly way to shut down any further discussions that go beyond what I pay for the kids visiting me in the future. Like when she makes fun of me because I pay my gym membership annually in advance because it saves me about £120 – for me that’s a smart way of dealing with money, she thinks it’s ridiculous – I guess something like “I am comfortable with how I handle my finances, and don’t comment on the way you handle yours, so would appreciate the same in return” would work?
And as far as the kids visiting me or I visiting them, I need to set a clear budget of what I am willing to do and communicate this in writing going forward.
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Post by sprite on Feb 7, 2024 12:29:29 GMT -5
[/quote]I've always been super intrigued at this practice (which is very common amongst both american couples and british couples) of not just chucking it all in together once you're in a committed long term relationship (e.g married) - which is how it works in NZ, Australia, I don't really know where else actually.
Yet another one of those things that you just get used to from your own culture/society. [/quote]
My partner and I met in our early 30s and have a joint account. we pay in equally for bills, and both use the joint card for shared items, like groceries or meals out. The rest of our money stays in our own accounts, to do as we please. If we had kids, this might be different. We both had our own finances already, so combining them felt wierd. We both knew people who'd been burned by doing that, so we were more cautious than we might have been in our early 20s.
our parents, on the other had, have totally combined finances, because when they married, that was what people did--to do otherwise would have been really wierd. Luckily, it has worked out for them. They communicate far more about money than my parnter and I do. I honestly have no idea what his paycheque looks like, or even how much the mortgage was (it's now paid off). I don't care, as long as he pays his share!
Romily, i think having it in writing is good. it's too easy for one person to say, 'yeah, i'll pay for the trip' and other other assumes that means every single cost, when actually it was only meant for the airfare, or some such.
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Post by sprite on Feb 7, 2024 12:30:33 GMT -5
And if she has £120 to burn by not paying in advance, well, good for her! Or, she doesn't have enough extra cash to do that in advance, or doesn't have a system for setting it aside, so the mental effort isn't worth it for her.
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Post by lisamnz on Feb 7, 2024 15:39:37 GMT -5
We both had our own finances already, so combining them felt wierd. We both knew people who'd been burned by doing that, so we were more cautious than we might have been in our early 20s. Perhaps the kids thing has something to do with it, more than age... I was in my early 30s when TEB and I got together. But it's also a strongly ingrained thing here in NZ that combining finances is what you do, and I guess the logic is that not to do so is viewed as not trusting your partner, or operating on the assumption that the relationship won't last, etc.
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Post by lisamnz on Feb 7, 2024 15:39:58 GMT -5
Also I think we probably have stronger rules here to protect people that are in de facto relationships, as opposed to marriages.
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Post by Liiisa on Feb 7, 2024 16:10:37 GMT -5
I think also that some people are more collectively inclined than others. The thought of combining everything and discussing everything (or doing everything) with another person makes me twitch.
I act like this big lefty but honestly living communally would drive me bonkers
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Post by tzarine on Feb 7, 2024 16:43:21 GMT -5
was content to live in sin, but medical care & other issues led to marriage big wow when we filed a joint tax return
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Post by sophie on Feb 7, 2024 16:53:04 GMT -5
We had more or less separate finances for the first 20 or so years. Gradually it melded together and almost completely together now. We have access to each others bank accounts but no one keeps track or separates bills any longer. It was a process which took many years!
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Post by Liiisa on Feb 7, 2024 18:59:53 GMT -5
I figure we'll do that when we finally move into some retirement community
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