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Post by sprite on Aug 11, 2018 8:36:27 GMT -5
Nothing out of Australia for us this year unfortunately. We are waiting until CrazyKitten turns 3 until we take him long haul. this got me thinking. i have a few friends who have organised (or want to organise) big trips with their very small children (under 5). these trips are expensive and far away, but often involve activities that i'm reasonably sure could be done not so far from home (museums, famous buildings, beaches, wilderness). what is the point? i get making these long trips to visit family, but just for holiday? we remember very little of our experiences before the age of 5, so why would people scrimp/save and put their toddlers through the agony of an 8 hr flight, just for a holiday the kids won't remember? |
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Post by tucano on Aug 11, 2018 8:45:22 GMT -5
*opens popcorn*
I don't know, I read plenty of blogs of people who travel with their kids under 5.
Edited to say: if we ever have a kid I won't be staying in the UK for holidays.
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Post by tzarine on Aug 11, 2018 11:46:09 GMT -5
tzarevich doesnt remember his early trips but he sure had fun
we lived in spain when tzar taught there & in hong kong when tzar was on a research grant
then again, he loved flying & turbulence
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Post by sophie on Aug 11, 2018 16:35:25 GMT -5
If you want your child to love travel, especially with you, you have to start young.. they might not remember it, but you will and the impressions and habits they get from being adaptable last a lifetime.
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Post by Liiisa on Aug 11, 2018 17:54:29 GMT -5
I dunno - I could say that what sophie's saying is true since when Spawn was growing up we couldn't afford to travel any farther than NYC, and Spawn doesn't really care about traveling.
However, when I was growing up my parents couldn't afford to travel either, and I grew up to be super into traveling. So I think desire to travel is an inherent personality thing.
So, I figure parents who travel with young kids do so because they like traveling and can afford it and don't want to leave their kid at home. It doesn't have to be about some future educational experience for the kid.
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Post by HalcyonDaze on Aug 11, 2018 18:25:42 GMT -5
Even if the kid does not remember the experience, it can still be something they really enjoyed at the time, and had a lot of fun doing.
It isn't as if when you are at home with your young child you never take them out anywhere and just stay with them at home all the time because they won't remember what happened.
I suppose it is all part of making someone the person they are. LC may not really remember all his days at playgroup, but that taught him a lot about how to make friends, how to share, how to play with other kids. Which made things like school easier for him. Possibly the travels we did when he was younger helped to make him enjoy the ones we do now he is older?
Then again, as his parents met on a travel forum there was always a good chance he would love travel!
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Post by ozziegiraffe on Aug 11, 2018 22:21:38 GMT -5
If you want your child to love travel, especially with you, you have to start young.. they might not remember it, but you will and the impressions and habits they get from being adaptable last a lifetime. My first flight wasn't until I was 10 (a flying boat to Lord Howe Island), but my father always took our family on road trips, varying from the Blue Mountains and Kangaroo Valley, to Queensland, South Australia and Tasmania. (We lived in a northern suburb of Sydney). I still love road trips, flying and any other travel. Special favourites are trains and boats of all sizes. |
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Post by sprite on Aug 12, 2018 4:10:05 GMT -5
Even if the kid does not remember the experience, it can still be something they really enjoyed at the time, and had a lot of fun doing. It isn't as if when you are at home with your young child you never take them out anywhere and just stay with them at home all the time because they won't remember what happened. i'm not saying leave kids in a box until their fourth birthday, i'm just wondering why people go through the expense and aggravation of travelling hours and multiple travel forms with small children, when equal fun (from the child's perspective) could be had from a destination an hour away--and for less expense and stress from parents. i see people saying these trips are for 'the family' or 'the kids' but i can't see how trying to keep a toddler occupied for 6-10 hrs in an aircraft is fun for anyone. (this is in line with my 'why do people spend masses of money on parties for 1-4 yr olds?) |
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Post by tucano on Aug 12, 2018 4:18:06 GMT -5
If the parents enjoy travel and they make up half or more of the family, maybe they think the hassle is worth it.
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Post by sprite on Aug 12, 2018 4:26:56 GMT -5
obvs if a family has loads of money and wants to spend it on plane tickets, it's their money. but if i had kids, i'd rather have cheaper, nearer holidays and set aside money for some big trips when they were older and could appreciate what they were seeing.
(i still haven't forgiven my parents for living in interesting places before i was 4.)
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Post by HalcyonDaze on Aug 12, 2018 4:28:34 GMT -5
i'm not saying leave kids in a box until their fourth birthday, i'm just wondering why people go through the expense and aggravation of travelling hours and multiple travel forms with small children, when equal fun (from the child's perspective) could be had from a destination an hour away--and for less expense and stress from parents. i see people saying these trips are for 'the family' or 'the kids' but i can't see how trying to keep a toddler occupied for 6-10 hrs in an aircraft is fun for anyone. (this is in line with my 'why do people spend masses of money on parties for 1-4 yr olds?) It is the parents holiday time as well and maybe they would be bored to tears and not find it relaxing at all to go to somewhere that is only an hour away? As for the time in the aircraft, we are lucky that LC has always travelled and flown well - I am sure if he didn't I would be giving different answers! From here, it can often be cheaper to do resort holidays in Bali or Fiji than a similar resort style, everything done for you, childminding etc within OZ. So that involves flights. A big thing here is cruises for families - that is where my head scratching starts.  And I am totally with you on the parties. The first birthday I do get, that is all about the parents surviving that first year. But the rest just seems like too much work. |
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Post by sprite on Aug 12, 2018 4:35:16 GMT -5
i'm thinking of a couple of specific people i know in this question--they talk about how they want these big trips for their kids, and often seem to be obsessed with 'perfect' experiences for their children. but they don't have much money. their other friends seem to share their view, while i'm often the lone voice saying, your three yr old cannot tell the difference between madagascar and the local zoo, so why is the parent upset on the child's behalf?
being upset because the parent wants to go to madagascar but can't, i understand.
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Post by HalcyonDaze on Aug 12, 2018 5:08:03 GMT -5
Ah, I blame parenting blogs and 'influencers' for that. ;-)
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Post by kraken on Aug 12, 2018 6:11:48 GMT -5
I do think there is this mentality of having 'worldly' kids, some of the parents who insists on taking their kids to far flung places also go on about how funny it is their toddlers love museums more than play areas and how they just cant get enough of sophisticated adult foods and eat durian fruit like there's no tomorrow... There's nothing wrong with feeding your child healthy foods but somehow there's an undertone of pride in their child preferring sushi to fish fingers as if that somehow makes them better parents, and some of these "I'm travelling because my baby just loves it" people seem to fit the same category.
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Post by HalcyonDaze on Aug 12, 2018 6:19:02 GMT -5
meh, my kid loves museums and playgrounds. In fact, one of the fun things of travelling with a young kid is ending up in places you would never go to as an adult, and mixing with the locals in a different way. I still remember some of the local kids who took LC under their wing when he was playing in a huge play area in Vanuatu. And also finding playgrounds in Paris, Berlin and all through the UK and ending up in a kids play museum in Japan. It is a different way of travelling! |
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Post by Liiisa on Aug 12, 2018 9:05:49 GMT -5
Ha kraken... parents love to use their kids as billboards for their own taste and interests.
In some strata it's little Gucci booties, in others it's little baby Trump (or anti-Trump) shirts or rock band onesies.... Not that I didn't do that, I definitely dressed Spawn in tiny feminist/witchy/band t-shirts and a Campagnolo bike racing hat that I'd altered to fit a toddler. And I took great pride in her love of dim sum and Indian food. I'll admit it!
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Post by tzarine on Aug 12, 2018 13:01:49 GMT -5
there are parents obsessed w making the 3rd rail child - a term i read on a blog - wordly, multilingual, travelled
it's a huge status
i happen to know some of the best parks in paris bc when he was 2, i took tzarevich there. he also learned how to order in a cafe. i also dragged him to a few museums, so there was some balance. we've eaten @ mcdonald's all over the world.
i remember once we came back to the states & tzarevich wanted to play immigration baggage claim w other kids on the playground.
also in the states, people tend to think you are super rich if you travel at all.
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Post by crazycat on Aug 12, 2018 21:05:49 GMT -5
Hmm, I didn't expect my comment to spark such a discussion!
We are holding off a big trip until CrazyKitten turns 3 because I cannot deal with an active toddler on a 24 hour flight at the moment. Even then our trips will probably be back to Wales as really these are the only big trips we do even before CrazyKitten came along due to the cost and limited annual leave but want to see our families as often as we can.
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Post by crazycat on Aug 12, 2018 21:06:58 GMT -5
On the other topic, we've done birthday parties for both first and second birthday. Both were at the park at the end of our street that has a bbq so the focus was sausage sandwiches and bubbly for the parents while the kids ran around in the park.
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Post by shilgia on Aug 13, 2018 0:23:07 GMT -5
It is the parents holiday time as well and maybe they would be bored to tears and not find it relaxing at all to go to somewhere that is only an hour away Yes, I think that’s reasonable. But in that case, why don’t they just come out and say that rather than say they’re doing it for the kids? I know some do, but definitely not all. Bit of a thread jack perhaps but it’s something that has been bothering me a bit lately. It seems to be a thing especially for mothers (and also women in general) that it’s not ok to say that you want to do something just because you want to do something. It’s more virtuous to say you’re doing it for your kids or your husband or your parents or some other person. So instead of “I love France. I’d like to go to France this summer” it’s “I want Jimmy to experience France, so we’re going to France this summer.” (Not suggesting that women don’t do a lot just for the benefit of their children. Of course they do. But when they sometimes do something for themselves, they should just be able to say so.) |
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Post by treehugger on Aug 13, 2018 14:12:15 GMT -5
I travel with my kids cause I love travelling and I love seeing the world through their eyes. I have taken them on worktrips to far flung places when they were really little deliberately because the airfare was much cheaper to travel with them under 2. They’ve opened doors for me and I’ve been able to experience places more “like a local” than I ever would on my own. As an introvert, my trips with kids are always far more social with them than if I travelled on my own. They also love it, and tbh the amount of whinging I get when I leave them behind can do my head in. When I travel with them they often call the shots: I give them a guidebook and let them pick a thing or two a day. It makes me enjoy that thing or two muah slower than I might otherwise. I spend more time at playgrounds and beaches, more time doing relaxing, more time answering questions about things that make me do some research and stretch myself. I also often spend less because I tend to stay in places where I can cook and eat dinner in most nights and don’t drink.
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Post by Liiisa on Aug 13, 2018 18:24:06 GMT -5
You're a great mom, tree!
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Post by tzarine on Aug 13, 2018 20:54:50 GMT -5
i found locals responded to me totally differently when i was tzarevich
they wanted to pick him up & shopkeepers comped him drinks, macaron
tree, so true about seeing the world through a child's eyes
shilgia,
totally agree about owning up to doing something for yourself than using the husband/child reason
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Post by treehugger on Aug 14, 2018 12:37:29 GMT -5
You're a great mom, tree! Thank you Liiisa my family does nothing but tell me what a shit parent I am so every counter voice helps 😊😘 |
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Post by Liiisa on Aug 14, 2018 16:42:59 GMT -5
You're a great mom, tree! Thank you Liiisa my family does nothing but tell me what a shit parent I am so every counter voice helps 😊😘 They’re nuts, but you knew that already! |
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Post by Phar Lap on Sept 7, 2018 9:55:12 GMT -5
If you want your child to love travel, especially with you, you have to start young.. they might not remember it, but you will and the impressions and habits they get from being adaptable last a lifetime. My first flight wasn't until I was 10 (a flying boat to Lord Howe Island), but my father always took our family on road trips.....Special favourites are trains and boats of all sizes. I have childhood memories of wonderful summer holidays. We always went to Sorrento for two weeks in January. The house we stayed in was a white house with a green roof up a hill on the left side and we would go down the hill on Sunday's to go to Mass. I remember lots of stuff about the hols. If we weren't having the traditional Sunday roast (It was always roast leg o lamb and roast veg), dad would take us for a picnic, he'd drive for miles and we went all around Victoria. We didn't have much money, but we still managed to go away on summer holidays, and a love of travel was born in me at a fairly young age, although it I didn't begin travelling until 2004 and the first flight I went on was April 2004 - Melbourne to Tasmania and I was terrified. It took a number of flights before I felt comfortable and had that not a care in the world feeling. I soon learned to love flying and if I had a bigger pocket I'd do it more often. Like Ozzie, I too love trains and mucking about on boats. |
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Post by shilgia on Sept 7, 2018 14:37:45 GMT -5
Cool, Phar. I remember a series of threads by you from around 2005 (I remember only because I remember where I was) about going camping for the first time. Sounds like 2004-2005 was a bit of an adventure awakening for you. Did anything in particular spur it?
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Post by tzarine on Sept 12, 2018 11:20:38 GMT -5
tzarevich loved turbulence
he got to travel bc the degree factory where tzar worked was generous w travel grants which allowed him summers in hongkong & burgos.
i became fascinated/obsessed w the outback bc of national geographic
our very very progressive teachers taught us about mexico & japan in 4th grade, so that got my 9 year old head into those places
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Post by tzarine on Jan 25, 2019 13:24:36 GMT -5
i did get to both mexico & japan!
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Post by tinaja on Jan 25, 2019 14:41:51 GMT -5
Why not? I say go for it Traveling growing up for me was our occasional trip to my grandma's house that was maybe 4 hours away but it felt like a whole day. My sister got car sick almost every time, and I did once. It wasn't all that fun to be there. We probably didn't have the gas money to just go anywhere, let alone lodging. And my dad was older, had seen some of the world, and was done. The first time in a motel was age 12 or so for a wedding out of town. My first time on a plane I was 21 or so. Yet, I caught the travel bug. Not sure what I would do as a parent. Seems to be pros and cons of both sides of the coin. |
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