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Post by romily on Nov 28, 2023 10:23:22 GMT -5
Hold on - this is not a straight forward question, and definitely not an anti vaxxer post!
Basically I had my first two basic vaccinations, and 2 boosters since then. I was eligible for the second booster only because of Mum, my GP registered me as an unpaid carer, and to protect Mum I got the booster.
I told my GP January this year my Mum has passed away and they can take me off the unpaid carer list - but clearly this hasn't happened, as I was invited to the flu vaccine (which was a big vaccine event at the surgery and I got it) and also been told to make appointment at pharmacy for Covid booster. I thought - fine, it's not as if I lied, and vaccine stock seems to eb no problem in the UK (uptake low this year), so why not. Now pharmacy does not have any vacine anymore so I need to go online and book.
BUT - by doing so I actively have to tick a box saying I am a carer - which is a lie. As long as the GP suregry made a mistake - fine by me - but actively lying sits wrong with me, even if it doesn't hurt anybody.
Also the WHO does not recommend this booster:
Medium priority group
Includes: Healthy younger adults - adults without comorbidities under the age of 50 to 60 years (age thresholds depend on countries); Children and adolescents with severe obesity or comorbidities that put them at higher risk of severe COVID-19 infection.
For this group, WHO recommends the primary series and first booster dose.
Additional booster doses are not routinely recommended.
On top of it I know I will feel shit for a few days which is not a big deal, but part of my problems with my muscles and hip pain is down to inflammation - and well, any vaccination can cause more inflammation.
So part of me still says - hey, give me the vaccine no matter what - another part says - I have Dr/Physio appointments coming out of my ears, I don't want to lie directly, and if it is not medically recommended it might be not worth the potential risk.
Thoughts?
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Post by Queen on Nov 28, 2023 10:49:57 GMT -5
I don't think "Who does not recommend this booster" is an accurate statement. They don't put you in a priority group, but that's not the same as not recommending it. (I'm a bit touchy on this subject because antivaxxers will misstate things from WHO in these terms).
So "WHO doesn't prioritise me" is more accurate.
OK getting off my grammar soapbox.
I get the moral dilemma about lying - I wouldn't want to partly because I prefer to be honest if I can and while nobody seems to be impacted I would be theoretically delaying someone in priority group from getting the vaccination... so...
I think it's OK to wait until you are included in the priority groups at this point.
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Post by sprite on Nov 28, 2023 11:45:44 GMT -5
I wouldn't normally lie. But I would like to get this booster--I'd be willing to pay! When I'm out and about, I'm often with older folks and would hate in unknowningly pass something on.
So in this case, knowing that there isn't a shortage, I might be tempted to tick that button. If there was a shortage, I absolutely wouldn't.
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Post by Queen on Nov 28, 2023 12:05:06 GMT -5
Are we helping?
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Post by tucano on Nov 28, 2023 12:56:10 GMT -5
Tricky. I got early invites for vaccination during the pandemic as technically I'm in a vulnerable group (but I would argue there are plenty of folks at much higher risk).
Recently I got an invite for a booster and I questioned it, but the online questionnaire said I was still eligible, even though other government comms indicated I maybe wasn't.
Long story short, I had the booster. My dad has various health problems and if it offers slightly more protection to him by me being vaccinated, that's OK with me.
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Post by crazycat on Nov 28, 2023 16:05:33 GMT -5
I just got my booster last week. So in total I've had 5 vaccines. 4 Pfizer and this last one was Moderna which the GP said was better against the current strain.
I got mine as they are preparing us for another wave over Christmas. We have family coming from the UK including MrCat's mum who almost died from Covid in 2020.
I also am prone to telling the truth even if telling a small lie would make life easier for me so I would probably wait until I became eligible in your situation unless getting the vaccine would have a positive mental health impact.
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Post by lisamnz on Nov 28, 2023 16:23:22 GMT -5
Same as crazy cat here. You can just walk in to any pharmacy or vaccination centre and get one every six months.
I would probably not take advantage of their administrative incompetence, however.
And what Q said "Additional booster doses are not routinely recommended."
Is very different to 'WHO does not recommend'.
By saying they are not 'routinely' recommended, they are giving a tactful out to those countries that choose not to, or cannot afford to, offer boosters after the first booster has been given.
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Post by tinaja on Nov 28, 2023 16:36:03 GMT -5
No brainer. I would get it and tick the box. Nobody is going to arrest you for it but I don't always follow every rule in life. Is this really a rule? If you was in the US, no questions asked.
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Post by Liiisa on Nov 28, 2023 17:41:35 GMT -5
Yeah, it seems like at this point in this country it's just "don't get one too soon after the last one." I think I just got #7? I'd do it too, especially if I were traveling over the holidays.
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Post by HalcyonDaze on Nov 28, 2023 17:53:29 GMT -5
Depends - is the UK issuing the XBB vaccine? That one hasn't arrived in Australia yet, so if I were eligible for another booster I would wait til I could get that.
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Post by romily on Nov 29, 2023 4:13:29 GMT -5
I will not be eligible for any booster in the future at all.
So it's not about waiting to become eligible - it's either tick the box and lie, or not get the booster. No vaccinations are planned at all besides for the groups outlined below:
Who is eligible for a seasonal COVID-19 vaccine
You or your child may be offered a seasonal COVID-19 vaccine if you are:
aged 65 years old or over (you need to be 65 years old by 31 March 2024) aged 6 months to 64 years old and are at increased risk living in a care home for older adults a frontline health or social care worker aged 16 to 64 years old and are a carer aged 12 to 64 years old and live with someone with a weakened immune system
I think the situation is a bit different in AUS and NZ as you were hit later than us in the UK - but yes, initially I was all for getting the booster, it's not my fault that they did not take me off the "carer" category when I told them earlier this year Mum has passed away.
I am still really torn.
I had quite adverse reaction to the last vaccines ( which doesn't stop me getting this one, but I have a lot of time off work with Dr / physio appointments, and am traveling to Germany in 3 weeks, so the plan was to get the vaccine on a Friday - to ride out the side effects without missing work - but there isn't really a Friday besides the one just before Christmas left.
I'd like to speak to a health care professional to see if the vaccine could make the inflammation issues I deal with worse - but of course can't.
It's really a risk / benefit / be honest thing I am weighing up. Seems the only option would be to get the vaccine in the Christmas break, which will be emotionally hard, and when I then feel like shit because of the side effects what will it do to my mental health.
Very undecided.
(And sorry if my wording on the WHO upset anybody - I am very pro vaccine generally, you all know that).
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Post by romily on Nov 29, 2023 4:42:37 GMT -5
Don't even know what XBB vaccine is, here you get either the newer version of the Pfizer or Moderna one.
Traveling to Germany for a weekend, but can't get the vaccine beforehand, and even if I would it would not really be effective before I travel.
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Post by HalcyonDaze on Nov 29, 2023 5:22:04 GMT -5
It's the latest monovalent Covid vaccine, to deal with the newer variants.
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Post by lillielangtry on Nov 29, 2023 5:27:38 GMT -5
I wouldn't lie in a medical situation. It just doesn't sit right with me.
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Post by Liiisa on Nov 29, 2023 5:56:27 GMT -5
Here I just both said "yeah, do it" and agreed with lillie about not lying in a medical situation, so I have no idea what I'm doing here.
I just don't understand why they're gatekeeping it so much when here you can just waltz into a CVS and get it (and the new one, not just a booster). (I ran the "Pfizer eligibility" tool as though I was under 65 with no immunocompromise status, and it said I was good to get it.)
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Post by HalcyonDaze on Nov 29, 2023 6:29:41 GMT -5
I figure the UK have bought all these vaccines that they will be throwing out, because their criteria are so narrow.
So if you have somehow made the list, go for it, rather than wasting a vaccine.
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Post by romily on Nov 29, 2023 6:32:47 GMT -5
www.bundesgesundheitsministerium.de/en/coronavirus/faq-covid-19-vaccinationIt's not only the UK - the German heath ministry also only recommends two basic vaccinations and one booster unless you are in risk group (I don't know if you could get hold of more boosters in practice in Germany). I already had one more booster than I would have gotten normally as Mum was still alive so I was still legally entitled to it. I guess the gate keeping is two fold - finances surely play a role, but also a an assessment of how much the virus circulates, and a general risk / benefits assessment - aka how much extra protection do you get vs risk of side effects in healthy adults. And different countries come to different conclusions. 7 Vaccinations Liisa? Wow, that is - thorough? Is that the normal recommendation in the US to get a booster every 6 months?
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Post by lillielangtry on Nov 29, 2023 6:42:46 GMT -5
www.bundesgesundheitsministerium.de/en/coronavirus/faq-covid-19-vaccinationIt's not only the UK - the German heath ministry also only recommends two basic vaccinations and one booster unless you are in risk group (I don't know if you could get hold of more boosters in practice in Germany). I already had one more booster than I would have gotten normally as Mum was still alive so I was still legally entitled to it. I guess the gate keeping is two fold - finances surely play a role, but also a an assessment of how much the virus circulates, and a general risk / benefits assessment - aka how much extra protection do you get vs risk of side effects in healthy adults. And different countries come to different conclusions. 7 Vaccinations Liisa? Wow, that is - thorough? Is that the normal recommendation in the US to get a booster every 6 months? I haven't had a booster this autumn. My boss has but she's over 60. I've heard that if you ask at the Hausarzt, they have plenty and will just give it to you, but the person who told me that is privately insured so I'm not convinced it's correct for Kassenpatienten. My partner was entitled to one for working in health care, but he caught covid just a few weeks ago. So generally I haven't heard that most people are getting one.
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Post by Queen on Nov 29, 2023 6:49:24 GMT -5
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Post by romily on Nov 29, 2023 7:15:36 GMT -5
Yes, that seems to be the general approach in Europe - that its not considered necessary anymore. I personally don't know anybody who had Covid the last months - compared to last year - but that's anecdote not data, I am fully aware of this.
Halycon - I have no idea what the stock of vaccine is in the UK - I would assume that if they would have to much stock they by now (December) would open it up to more people so the vaccine doesn't get wasted.
I made the list by an admin mistake from my surgery - if I gotten the vaccine from them I would have been ok with it. They pointed me towards the local pharmacy - but I have been spoken to them for 4 weeks, and they only get the odd batch of vaccine and then it's first comes first gets it, and they had no vaccine in 2 weeks and don't know when they get any again. Which makes me think there isn't a huge surplus - but then other pharmacies locally have lots of appointments so it might be due to distribution, who knows.
So now to get it I need to book online, and actually lie - tick a box that I am a carer when this is definitely not the case. and that makes me very uncomfortable.
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Post by Liiisa on Nov 29, 2023 8:00:51 GMT -5
Seven! I would have to look up exactly when I got them all... it was whenever a booster or new formulation was approved, I just rocked on in there and got it.
So the fact that I eventually got COVID anyway is a little ludicrous, but it was a very mild case and I managed to not give it to pero despite being in the same house -- so maybe all those vaccines managed to head off most of the viral load when I got it.
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Post by riverhorse on Nov 29, 2023 9:23:58 GMT -5
www.bundesgesundheitsministerium.de/en/coronavirus/faq-covid-19-vaccinationIt's not only the UK - the German heath ministry also only recommends two basic vaccinations and one booster unless you are in risk group (I don't know if you could get hold of more boosters in practice in Germany). I already had one more booster than I would have gotten normally as Mum was still alive so I was still legally entitled to it. I guess the gate keeping is two fold - finances surely play a role, but also a an assessment of how much the virus circulates, and a general risk / benefits assessment - aka how much extra protection do you get vs risk of side effects in healthy adults. And different countries come to different conclusions. 7 Vaccinations Liisa? Wow, that is - thorough? Is that the normal recommendation in the US to get a booster every 6 months? It depends on your GP - I've heard of people here in Germany who live with vulnerable family members but their GPs refuse to give them a booster because "they're not entitled to it" as under 60. However, the RKI/Health Ministry is issuing a RECOMMENDATION only, it is not legally binding, so when my GP raised the question with me about whether I wanted a booster and flu shot, when I said, I'm not entitled to it as not yet 60, she said rubbish, anyone in my practice can have a shot if they want it, as it is a non-binding recommendation only. And she particularly said that I should have one working in the petri dish that is a crowded school! So, got both Covid XBB booster and flu shot at the same time. So perhaps worth giving it a try with a German GP if you really want one - just point out that those under 60 CAN and DO get it, that the RKI issues a non-binding recommendation only.
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Post by riverhorse on Nov 29, 2023 9:25:32 GMT -5
PS: This was exactly the same response I got from my Ob Gyn a year ago - was there for a check up, she asked me if I wanted a Covid booster! I said I thought I wasn't allowed to have it - utter nonsense. She said as I was the last appointment of the day, she'd either give me the shot or have to chuck out the dose, so I might as well save on some wastage!
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Post by sprite on Nov 29, 2023 9:50:40 GMT -5
When I lived in a school, I got every vaccination I could. Petri dish is the only word for it.
It appears in the UK that legally a company could sell the vax privately, but in practice all the companies licensed to make it are tied into contracts meaning they only supply the NHS--no stock available for private sale.
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Post by romily on Nov 29, 2023 10:58:28 GMT -5
Yes, no access privately.
I have no links to any German GPs anymore and no German health insurance, so that's a no go.
I am not really in any risk group - I work from home 3 days a week, in the office 2 days a week, with limited contact, and my social life isn't one that does get me into huge crowds in enclosed spaces. Traveling (flights) is probably the highest risk.
If I would be a teacher I would be more inclined to tick that damn box! But it just doesn't sit right with me. And yes, the vaccine used is the one against the new XBB booster.
This is so typical for the German health system! On the other side my sister didn't want the booster (for her health reasons I don't want to go into but are legit) but pretty much had to have it as she works face to face with patients as a therapist and her insurance demands it. She actually had to get a letter from her specialist for her insurance so to not have to take the booster. Whereas my BIL really wanted it and could not get his GP to give it to him. Madness.
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Post by Liiisa on Nov 29, 2023 12:21:32 GMT -5
That's our stupid capitalist healthcare system: if you have enough money to then have the right insurance, you can have any medical treatment you want. There is rationing -- it's just rationing to the rich.
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Post by romily on Nov 29, 2023 14:18:34 GMT -5
That's what I was wondering earlier, if that regular booster in the US is available to everybody or if it depends on insurance, I guess you answered that? What is available in the US to everybody regardless of private insurance? Just curious!
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Post by Liiisa on Nov 29, 2023 14:47:57 GMT -5
During the height of the pandemic, all of the COVID vaccines and tests were free of cost, but it recently changed. There are social support programs like Medicare and Medicaid that will give people free/discounted meds and vaccines, but you have to qualify, sign up, etc. I’m going to have to sign up for Medicare soon and am not looking forward to figuring out what to do… and I’m an educated person who knows stuff about healthcare.
There are still charity free clinics that people who are not signed up for anything can go to, but of course that’s dependent on the charity funding, ideology, etc.
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Post by HalcyonDaze on Nov 29, 2023 15:21:27 GMT -5
Halycon - I have no idea what the stock of vaccine is in the UK - I would assume that if they would have to much stock they by now (December) would open it up to more people so the vaccine doesn't get wasted. It's to do with the cost of administering the vaccine. It does seem insane, to be honest. In some JCVI statement. I would have assumed once they saw what was happening with hospitals over winter they would also open up access, but so many anecdotes of even hospitals no longer testing for Covid that may not happen. Who knows.
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Post by lisamnz on Nov 29, 2023 15:24:10 GMT -5
LIke crazy cat said, there's another wave of cases here in NZ at the moment, so I think there are more people thinking a booster would be a good idea. And we're almost into summer, so it's not a winter illness thing. It's probably more likely a new wave of tourists/travellers (did we ever decide what the difference was) coming into the country in spring, and spreading round new variants. I know I've seen a huge surge in wwoofer hosting requests, so they are obviously returning in their droves.
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