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Post by Webs on Nov 17, 2017 20:59:19 GMT -5
Chiropractic Holistic Copper cures Crystal therapy
I keep coming across people who resort to these things with little results or relief for serious conditions.
A friend with frequent back issues keeps going to a chiropractor who gives her temporary relief but is probably doing more damage. If I try to recommend she sees a neurologist or god forbid, a real doctor, I know I'm going to get a "what do you know" response.
But it's so frustrating. Especially because I live with chronic pain and am so careful about what I allow people to do to my joints.
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Post by groo on Nov 17, 2017 21:22:48 GMT -5
I know! That's just what my aromatherapist says.
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Post by Q-pee on Nov 18, 2017 3:22:44 GMT -5
Eat more tumeric, Acai berries, coconut water, kale, chromium... whatever the ingredient du jour might be.
I'm keen on good nutrition but some of the advice is bonkers.
And the holistic thing drives me crazy, the word has been hijacked because actually thinking holistically about health is a good idea.
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Post by groo on Nov 18, 2017 3:57:53 GMT -5
I well remember a Uki Public School P&C (PTA to some of you) meeting when an outbreak of Pediculosis (head lice), not uncommon in kids was discussed and there was division. The Principal had consulted his department's medical office and had a pharmacological solution, the alternative culture folk (hippies to some) opted for a variety of measures which included meditation and dancing naked beneath the full moon but the farmers were inclined toward applying a mixture of cattle dip and dieldrin. Possibly the most practical were the Hare Krishna folk who opted for shaving heads.
Overall, the Principal handled a difficult meeting rather well.
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Post by ozziegiraffe on Nov 18, 2017 5:23:51 GMT -5
It always astounds me how many quacks are making a very good living from gullible people.
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Post by Liiisa on Nov 18, 2017 7:39:17 GMT -5
Yeah, there's a whole lot of nonsense out there.
I think it has a parallel to the nonsense in politics: people see corruption and money in medicine just as they do in politics. So then they assume is that anything that isn't Western medicine or a mainstream politician has to be good, not realizing that those things can be bad too, just in a different way.
And unfortunately you can't say that Western medicine is perfect. Pharmaceutical companies are hardly angelic, and some treatments sound worse than the disease.... So you have to keep yourself well informed about everything, and understand all your options; it's exhausting. So I could see how someone with a personality that leaned to the wishful/magical thinking side would end up believing in crystals or whatever. Much nicer to spend time in a salt cave (there is one of these down the street from my office, I have no idea what it is about) than to enroll in a clinical trial and get blood work done every 15 days or whatever.
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Post by sprite on Nov 18, 2017 9:10:55 GMT -5
quick fixes are attractive. it is strange that there's a mistrust of medical science, yet a lot of these quacks use science-y words and put references in their advertising literature. another factor is that GPs are often under a lot of time pressure, while your chiro/aromatherapists/woowoo doctor has lots of time for you.
when i had public health physio, it was, literally, "stand up, bend, stretch, lie down, stretch, push, ok, do this exercise, right, do all the exercises in this booklet everyday, see you in two weeks, bye." and i had to wait 3 months to be seen for that. privately? 45 minutes, lots of visual and physical observation of my movements, stretches, some manipulations, some pain relief. psychologically, i FEEL that more is being done, and i FEEL better. really, neither is objectively better than the other, buy feelings affect physical health too.
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Post by Webs on Nov 18, 2017 17:16:03 GMT -5
But sprite a chiropractor isn't a doctor and in some cases doesn't even have to have college degree. How long do you "feel" better for?
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Post by sprite on Nov 18, 2017 17:56:20 GMT -5
every day in every way, i'm feeling better! hahahahaahahahaha.
ahem. objectively, i know that the NHS physio was just as competent as the ones i see privately. but the private can give temporary pain relief through massage, along with checking how i'm doing and offering tweaked exercises. (at them moment, one exercise is, lie down, bend knees. tighten a muscle on my left, next to my hip bone, and lift my foot 1 inch off the floor. argh.) the nhs ones don't have time for anything extra.
so, i feel like the private ones are better. i know objectively they aren't, but feeling that they are better also makes me more likely to follow their advice. and a positive thought process can lead to a person feeling less pain in some circumstances. the brain is wierd. basically, humans are probably the worst species to be in control of ourselves.
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Post by Bastet on Nov 18, 2017 21:29:59 GMT -5
I hate all that shit. Praying on vulnerability.
My aunt has made a living on quackery. Enough to support her and her whole family. Acupuncture, reflexology, homeopathy, chiropractor and Chinese plus diagnostic treatment. She would make you hold a bottle in each hand and ‘prescribe’ the one that gave the patient the strongest vibe. Such bollox.
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Post by HalcyonDaze on Nov 18, 2017 21:36:42 GMT -5
Meh, I've used and am still using acupuncture and it has worked well for me. And I don't consider myself vulnerable. I do think the burning of herbs that can go with it is a load of hookum and don't think that does anything at all.
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Post by groo on Nov 19, 2017 0:08:11 GMT -5
There are a lot of people in my valley who believe that the burning of herbs, and the subsequent ingestion of the smoke so produced, gives relief beyond measure.
Who am I to argue?
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Post by HalcyonDaze on Nov 19, 2017 1:30:54 GMT -5
There are a lot of people in my valley who believe that the burning of herbs, and the subsequent ingestion of the smoke so produced, gives relief beyond measure. Who am I to argue? I stumbled into that one, didn't I? I still don't think mugwort or whatever it does works.
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Post by Q-pee on Nov 19, 2017 2:20:33 GMT -5
Sprite is talking about a physiotherapist, which is not the same as a chiropractor. Physios are great, they've helped with muscle pain, sprains and a back issue. IMHO they are not quacks. The smoked herbs may make you feel relaxed temporarily, either because they smell nice or because there is a placebo effect. The are not medicine. Here's how you can tell if something is a medicine; it's regulated. The biggest quacks are homeopathy. But apparently some doctors have lost their ability to understand that and are prescribing it. arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/whats-worse-doctors-who-believe-homeopathy-or-just-use-it-for-placebo-effect/Luckily it wont hurt you... because it's water.
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Post by ozziegiraffe on Nov 19, 2017 2:34:56 GMT -5
I was going to a physio who used acupuncture quite successfully before manipulation. However, I don’t think esoteric breast massage, practised at a North Coast clinic, has any validity.
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Post by groo on Nov 19, 2017 2:43:28 GMT -5
EBM was, however, a somewhat pleasant diversion when I was younger.
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Post by tinaja on Nov 19, 2017 9:37:28 GMT -5
I feel that way about chiropractors having gone that route 2 times. A back adjustment doesn't cure all. I wasn't even sure the lady even was adjusting anything. I will say the guy could adjust my previously broken ankle and that was temporary relief.
I can say I have been Reiki, had my chakras aligned, etc and now feel like it's bullshit. Had an issue only healed by time.
And recently believe probiotics were doing more harm than good.
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Post by sprite on Nov 19, 2017 10:11:28 GMT -5
i should point out that i don't think physio is quackery, but i'm thinking the personal attention given by many quacks is very persuasive.
a medical tv show here does little experiments to test out/demonstrate various new theories, or compare weight loss programs. they did one with probiotics which was interesting, showing that quite a few foods are marketed with probiotics, but these don't survive the stomach, and therefore don't give any benefit to the gut. (they also did one with antioxidants, which showed that loaded your diet with antioxidants makes very little different to how much of them actually get into the bloodstream.)
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Post by Webs on Nov 19, 2017 10:17:59 GMT -5
Physiotherapy isn't quackery. They're actually licensed and go through extensive training. They're given their instructions on the therapy by doctors and work to improve movement based on the actual way the body works.
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Post by Q-pee on Nov 19, 2017 14:21:14 GMT -5
a medical tv show here does little experiments to test out/demonstrate various new theories, or compare weight loss programs. they did one with probiotics which was interesting, showing that quite a few foods are marketed with probiotics, but these don't survive the stomach, and therefore don't give any benefit to the gut. (they also did one with antioxidants, which showed that loaded your diet with antioxidants makes very little different to how much of them actually get into the bloodstream.) Your stomach is essentially an acid bath. The pH is about 2.5, and it's full of Hydro-chloric acid, which is why your throat burns when you throw up. It's designed to break stuff down. Of course it breaks down "Pro Biotics" it's meant to.
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Post by sophie on Nov 19, 2017 14:37:32 GMT -5
After a bad night with a very sore knee, I think I would go for whatever promised to make the pain go away. I forget how pain influences decisions.
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Post by treehugger on Nov 19, 2017 14:57:24 GMT -5
I don't believe in anything beyond the here and now. And having spent so long in research I'm aware that even so much of what we think of as quantifiable science can be influenced dramatically by the researcher's own biases (often just at a subconscious level) and even very dramatic (significant) results are often not replicable to the same degree when experiments are performed again with different researchers.
Saying that, I recently had my first experience with an energy healer and was pretty stunned that she sensed "energy" in the part of my body that was injured severely 30+ years ago (this was without me giving any indication that I had had an injury there, and there have been no scars/lasting effects). It was really strange.
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Post by Webs on Nov 19, 2017 15:31:00 GMT -5
And a reiki practitioner putting warm hands on my sore ones makes them hurt less, but you rubbing your hands together and putting them on my sore joints would feel good too.
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Post by Bastet on Nov 19, 2017 16:06:11 GMT -5
Put simply touch override the pain path to the brain. That is why it can feel better if someone simply puts their hands on you. It is not healing energy sent to anyone.
I have to say though that as much as I hate quackery- the placebo effect is incredibly strong. I’ve seen patients have a significant reduction in seizures by simply believing in being on the active drug. That’s why we do randomised double blinded clinical trials on real medicine.
So if drinking water helps a person feel better and it’s in addition to real medical treatment - then I’m all for it. Oh and as long as it’s not paid for by my taxes.
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Post by ozziegiraffe on Nov 19, 2017 16:12:51 GMT -5
Probiotics certainly make a difference when taking antibiotics.
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Post by leela on Nov 19, 2017 17:52:34 GMT -5
My mum thinks she has the gift of healing. She seems oblivious to the possibility that people were almost certainly just being kind when they said that they were cured after her laying her hands on them, or that she relieved their pain (we're talking friends and her carers here...no money changing hands)
I mentioned elsewhere, that last week she kept saying to my brother and me, that she wished we'd inherited her gift. Then said to me "are you sure that you don't have the gift, leela?" I snapped at her and said that if I did, then my husband would still be alive, and that I refused to continue the conversation. She went silent.
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Post by Webs on Nov 19, 2017 18:55:47 GMT -5
I get it Leela.
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Post by HalcyonDaze on Nov 19, 2017 19:36:12 GMT -5
It's the doTerra oils that bug me at the moment. Sure, they smell nice but they aren't going to cure things and so aren't worth the mega bucks. And the whole 'add them to your food' bit seems wrong. Also, it is another MLM company, so that puts me off - surely if it was that good and that healing it wouldn't need MLM to sell?
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Post by tzarine on Nov 19, 2017 19:58:53 GMT -5
moth in law is into all that crap
biotouch - they heal through touch & egoscure - some exercise routine by a local guru, when she needed a knee replacement
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Post by Liiisa on Nov 19, 2017 22:11:01 GMT -5
It's the doTerra oils that bug me at the moment. Sure, they smell nice but they aren't going to cure things and so aren't worth the mega bucks. And the whole 'add them to your food' bit seems wrong. Also, it is another MLM company, so that puts me off - surely if it was that good and that healing it wouldn't need MLM to sell? Oh yes, I got some of those oils as presents from someone who was doing that. I smeared the stress-relief one onto some mosquito bites and they quit itching, so that's something, though of course correlation does not imply causation.
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